If you missed Part 1 here you go "Church" Part 1
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Theses verses are the only reason I felt bad for over a year every Sunday morning we did not go to church....but if you read them all together, if you actually take the time to figure out what they mean, they don't say, "go to church every Sunday (or Saturday)." they say to try to "stimulate one another to love and good deeds," to encourage one another.
Church is not about "me," it is about "you" it's not for me, it is not so I can be spiritually fed once a week. Church is about loving other believers, encouraging other believers, challenging other believers (and yourself) to do good deeds. It is not about how much money the "church" needs for their building program or their youth program. It's not about the "church" budget, it is about love, good deeds and encouragement. It's about fellowship with other believers to encourage them. We in America have tried to make it about "me," but it's not intended to be that, so it breaks down when it is that.
This is what prompted Hubbin and I to read the book "So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore" by Wayne Jacobsen and Dave Coleman. You can visit the website for the book here. Reading this beautifully written book was what finally pushed me over the edge into guilt-free church-free Sunday mornings. But, only because we had Christian fellowship, where we could encourage other believers (and be encouraged by them, although that was not the reason we spent time with them), elsewhere.
I guess, in a nutshell, that is what church is to us...fellowship with other believers where we are able to encourage, and love on one another.
Feel free to agree or disagree, and if you have found that in the traditional American "church" setting, that is awesome! If you haven't, I encourage you too find other believers to spend purposeful time with.
Until next time,
RaVae
Monday, July 23, 2012
Sunday, July 8, 2012
The Emergent Label
I'm a teacher at heart and that teaching takes me all over the place and into many different types of churches, schools and organizations.
The first thing everyone wants to know is your label. Well, they don't use that language but that is what they mean. Where can I fit you into my world. Conservative or liberal. Democrat or Republican. Religious or non religious. Extrovert or Introvert?
So even though I don't really like labels I'm often put into a place where I have to try to use them. The problem is that words ALWAYS have baggage. When you use a word, others already have an idea of what that means which is not always what you are meaning.
My dad likes to have fun with the word liberal. If someone says its bad to be liberal he might reply why? What do you mean by liberal. What if I want to be a liberal giver? You can see what I mean.
So for me in the last few years I've fallen into the category of "Emergent". I do love this term but so many don't really know what it means. Sometimes I'm not even sure (haha). I do believe we are in a period like the reformation & that the church has gotten so far off the tracks that we need something new to Emerge. So when THAT is a persons definition of Emergent, then I am. We are NOT known by our love at all & something has to change. Something new MUST emerge.
In past years most Emergents have liked to refer to this as "The Emergent Conversation". Like it wasn't a movement, it was a conversation. Now I like conversation, but I like action more. In this way I'm probably NOT Emergent. I'm more of a doer. I love giving to beggars. I love social action. I love trying to do things that Jesus would do. So I'm all for being Emergent in one sense, but I'm not if all its going to be is talking about all the ideals the world should have and how to solve them.
So you can see the problem with labels & words. They carry baggage. We have to either pick & choose the right ones, explain what we mean by them or know who we're talking to. It can give you a headache. For me, there is often no other way. So I'm constantly using them but I'm usually very purposeful about who I'm around, what they understand and how I can make sure they know what I mean when I use certain words or labels.
To fully understand The Emergent movement you probably should read up on the internet & for sure read the books I suggested a few blogs ago. Especially start with Rachel Held Evan's book "Evolving in Monkey Town". Then if you add to that McLaren's "A new kind of Christianity" and Rob Bell's "Love Wins" that is the best intro I can give you. You will at least have the general idea about the questions people are asking and why we don't have to have all the answers.
Also you might just feel yourself being set free from the old traditional Christian guilt & shame based religiosity and you just might find yourself FREE to really seek to know Jesus and find truth in the mystery without being judgmental, fundamental or a legalist.
What I see emerging in me is love, compassion and grace for ALL! This is my hope for this elusive thing we call the Emergent church.
What do you think? Let me know what you think about Emergence or other labels or frustrations or opinions!!!! Come on lets get some chatter going. Share this blog with your friends!!
The first thing everyone wants to know is your label. Well, they don't use that language but that is what they mean. Where can I fit you into my world. Conservative or liberal. Democrat or Republican. Religious or non religious. Extrovert or Introvert?
So even though I don't really like labels I'm often put into a place where I have to try to use them. The problem is that words ALWAYS have baggage. When you use a word, others already have an idea of what that means which is not always what you are meaning.
My dad likes to have fun with the word liberal. If someone says its bad to be liberal he might reply why? What do you mean by liberal. What if I want to be a liberal giver? You can see what I mean.
So for me in the last few years I've fallen into the category of "Emergent". I do love this term but so many don't really know what it means. Sometimes I'm not even sure (haha). I do believe we are in a period like the reformation & that the church has gotten so far off the tracks that we need something new to Emerge. So when THAT is a persons definition of Emergent, then I am. We are NOT known by our love at all & something has to change. Something new MUST emerge.
In past years most Emergents have liked to refer to this as "The Emergent Conversation". Like it wasn't a movement, it was a conversation. Now I like conversation, but I like action more. In this way I'm probably NOT Emergent. I'm more of a doer. I love giving to beggars. I love social action. I love trying to do things that Jesus would do. So I'm all for being Emergent in one sense, but I'm not if all its going to be is talking about all the ideals the world should have and how to solve them.
So you can see the problem with labels & words. They carry baggage. We have to either pick & choose the right ones, explain what we mean by them or know who we're talking to. It can give you a headache. For me, there is often no other way. So I'm constantly using them but I'm usually very purposeful about who I'm around, what they understand and how I can make sure they know what I mean when I use certain words or labels.
To fully understand The Emergent movement you probably should read up on the internet & for sure read the books I suggested a few blogs ago. Especially start with Rachel Held Evan's book "Evolving in Monkey Town". Then if you add to that McLaren's "A new kind of Christianity" and Rob Bell's "Love Wins" that is the best intro I can give you. You will at least have the general idea about the questions people are asking and why we don't have to have all the answers.
Also you might just feel yourself being set free from the old traditional Christian guilt & shame based religiosity and you just might find yourself FREE to really seek to know Jesus and find truth in the mystery without being judgmental, fundamental or a legalist.
What I see emerging in me is love, compassion and grace for ALL! This is my hope for this elusive thing we call the Emergent church.
What do you think? Let me know what you think about Emergence or other labels or frustrations or opinions!!!! Come on lets get some chatter going. Share this blog with your friends!!
Thursday, July 5, 2012
"Church" Part 1
Wow! What an honor! I've been asked to add some posts to this blog and boy am I excited! Let me introduce myself first since you have no idea who I am....
My name is RaVae Erickson and I am part of the Emergent Church....well, I like to think I am anyway!
Logen is much more theological than I am, and according to him I am part of the emergent church-that's good enough for me! I use "we" language a LOT. The majority of the time I do this (let's say around 99% of the time) I am referring to my husband and myself. We have been married for 4 years after dating for three, after being best friends for two years before that...yikes! I've known him for almost a decade! We aren't perfect, but we try to be honest with one another. We also have an adorable (not that I'm biased or anything) baby girl who is eight months old.
This first post I will try to tell you A little bit about our "church" story.... Hubbin attended a baptist "church" where he loved the speaking style of the pastor and I attended a "church" where I loved their small scale modern worship (and the speaking was pretty good too). The pastor left Hubbin's "church," so he started coming with me. Shortly thereafter we were both hurt by the way the people in my small (think 20 people) "church" were treating him-as if he was an outcast and an unclean leper! We left that "church" and were lost for a long time....we eventually found "cowboy church" where we both loved the honesty of the pastors. That was the first time I have ever heard a pastor say from the pulpit, "hey I screwed up this week, I did xyz."
BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, there was no community. There was no fellowship. We could go for months without talking to anyone at "church," and that, is just not right. That realization was the first step in our leaving typical American "churches" and searching for something better, something more, something deeper.... This post is quite long, so I think I will leave you with this and give you part two soon!
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Logen is much more theological than I am, and according to him I am part of the emergent church-that's good enough for me! I use "we" language a LOT. The majority of the time I do this (let's say around 99% of the time) I am referring to my husband and myself. We have been married for 4 years after dating for three, after being best friends for two years before that...yikes! I've known him for almost a decade! We aren't perfect, but we try to be honest with one another. We also have an adorable (not that I'm biased or anything) baby girl who is eight months old.
This first post I will try to tell you A little bit about our "church" story.... Hubbin attended a baptist "church" where he loved the speaking style of the pastor and I attended a "church" where I loved their small scale modern worship (and the speaking was pretty good too). The pastor left Hubbin's "church," so he started coming with me. Shortly thereafter we were both hurt by the way the people in my small (think 20 people) "church" were treating him-as if he was an outcast and an unclean leper! We left that "church" and were lost for a long time....we eventually found "cowboy church" where we both loved the honesty of the pastors. That was the first time I have ever heard a pastor say from the pulpit, "hey I screwed up this week, I did xyz."
BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, there was no community. There was no fellowship. We could go for months without talking to anyone at "church," and that, is just not right. That realization was the first step in our leaving typical American "churches" and searching for something better, something more, something deeper.... This post is quite long, so I think I will leave you with this and give you part two soon!
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Wednesday, July 4, 2012
Charlie
Hi my name is Charlie, or at least that is what a young foreigner nicknamed me. I am from an Asian country that has many problems and has been the location for wars over many things I do not understand.
With my dad gone, perhaps dead, I am left to try to help my family. I've tried everything. Well not everything. The one thing I have not done is sell myself. I've heard of other young people doing this but I don't think my dad would approve. I'm at the end though, and I need to decide what to do.
This foreigner that gave me the nickname Charlie seems like a nice guy. I mean he tells me he loves me, he'll even fly kites with me if I want. He is always talking about this good news. He even told me once that what is really important is what happens to you after you die. I guess this is not news I need now but for the future. I would like some good news now but he insists that this is good news now.
My foreign friend left recently. Said he had to go back to get more money to come back and bring us good news. I have to admit, I'm not sure I understand what he is talking about. Money or a job could be good news. I'm not sure these foreigners understand what we are going through at all.
With my foreign friend gone, all alone, I make my decision to make contact with a man that says he also has good news. Good news of a job. I'm glad because I did not want to have to sell myself like some of my friends. This was good news.
He took me to the city. Gave me food, clothes & a place to stay. Said I could pay him back. What I didn't realize is that the way to pay him back would be doing sexual things with older men with money to buy a moment of pleasure. I kept trying to make enough money to pay him back so I could start sending money back to my family but somehow I kept falling deeper into debt.
Some say Charlie needs to accept Jesus to go to heaven "someday". So many opinions out there as to how Charlie might get to heaven or whatever paradise awaits after death. To bad he missed his chance with the foreigner. Some even say well if Charlie is under 8 or 10 or 12 then he is fine he gets to go to heaven no matter what. Some say he needs to be baptized. Some say he needs to say certain words that he could have repeated after the foreigner. To bad the foreigner is not around now, charlie doesn't know the magic words nor the name of the person who has this good news for after you die. What was his name?
I hate to admit it but I am that foreigner. I remember having all the answers, now I have nothing but questions. I heard that Charlie died after years of trying to repay this man he worked for. I am pretty sure he didn't say the "sinners prayer". I'm pretty sure he didn't know Jesus. Would God really send him to hell for eternal conscious torment? Like burning FOREVER? Eternal torture? That doesn't sound like God to me. Especially if Jesus is the image of the invisible God as it says in the bible.
There are parts of the bible that seem to talk about eternal fire but there are also parts that seem to give us hope of ultimate reconciliation. If Jesus would leave the 99 for the 1 could he possibly be up to some greater end than we could have ever imagined? He said in the bible that he desires that NONE should perish. If that is true how strong is God. Is God strong enough to get everything God desires?
If he is then there is hope for Charlie! I hope God is strong enough to get his way and ALL he desires!
With my dad gone, perhaps dead, I am left to try to help my family. I've tried everything. Well not everything. The one thing I have not done is sell myself. I've heard of other young people doing this but I don't think my dad would approve. I'm at the end though, and I need to decide what to do.
This foreigner that gave me the nickname Charlie seems like a nice guy. I mean he tells me he loves me, he'll even fly kites with me if I want. He is always talking about this good news. He even told me once that what is really important is what happens to you after you die. I guess this is not news I need now but for the future. I would like some good news now but he insists that this is good news now.
My foreign friend left recently. Said he had to go back to get more money to come back and bring us good news. I have to admit, I'm not sure I understand what he is talking about. Money or a job could be good news. I'm not sure these foreigners understand what we are going through at all.
With my foreign friend gone, all alone, I make my decision to make contact with a man that says he also has good news. Good news of a job. I'm glad because I did not want to have to sell myself like some of my friends. This was good news.
He took me to the city. Gave me food, clothes & a place to stay. Said I could pay him back. What I didn't realize is that the way to pay him back would be doing sexual things with older men with money to buy a moment of pleasure. I kept trying to make enough money to pay him back so I could start sending money back to my family but somehow I kept falling deeper into debt.
Some say Charlie needs to accept Jesus to go to heaven "someday". So many opinions out there as to how Charlie might get to heaven or whatever paradise awaits after death. To bad he missed his chance with the foreigner. Some even say well if Charlie is under 8 or 10 or 12 then he is fine he gets to go to heaven no matter what. Some say he needs to be baptized. Some say he needs to say certain words that he could have repeated after the foreigner. To bad the foreigner is not around now, charlie doesn't know the magic words nor the name of the person who has this good news for after you die. What was his name?
I hate to admit it but I am that foreigner. I remember having all the answers, now I have nothing but questions. I heard that Charlie died after years of trying to repay this man he worked for. I am pretty sure he didn't say the "sinners prayer". I'm pretty sure he didn't know Jesus. Would God really send him to hell for eternal conscious torment? Like burning FOREVER? Eternal torture? That doesn't sound like God to me. Especially if Jesus is the image of the invisible God as it says in the bible.
There are parts of the bible that seem to talk about eternal fire but there are also parts that seem to give us hope of ultimate reconciliation. If Jesus would leave the 99 for the 1 could he possibly be up to some greater end than we could have ever imagined? He said in the bible that he desires that NONE should perish. If that is true how strong is God. Is God strong enough to get everything God desires?
If he is then there is hope for Charlie! I hope God is strong enough to get his way and ALL he desires!
Sunday, July 1, 2012
4 emergent books highly recommended
Now some of these people wouldn't consider themselves emergent, which is usually a sign they are!
Emergent is a VERY hard thing to explain. Its basically the idea that something "new" is emerging. To me its a bit like the idea of the Phoenix. You know the Phoenix dies & then out of the ashes arises a new one. So many think this is sort of like a new reformation. To me its kind of like nailing jello to the wall because you have all sorts of folks in the emergent conversation from many different perspectives. There are conservatives coming from the evangelical direction & there are also liberals coming from more of a mainline direction. So there is no doctrinal statement for the Emerging Church.
Now people are using the term Emergent less and starting to use "progressive Christian". I think what drives these people together is that they want to be known by their love. They are tired of a non loving, hypocritical church. They are tired of the world thinking we hate them. They usually aren't into legislating morality. Many of them support gay rights even if they think its still a sin. Most probably are pretty loose with that though and in some ways support monogamous faithful unions of any kind. They would say the bible never addresses that. Well I'm still evolving on that but my very dear friends that love the Lord and are gay are really helping me see things from a whole new light.
Anyway that at least gives you some idea of Emergent & Progressive. I think if you were to talk to 10 different theologians or pastors you'd probably get 6 different answers!!
Now these books I'm going to recommend are books to help you in an introductory way. I will list them in the order I'd read them too.
"Evolving in Monkey Town" by Rachel Held Evans
This book will just help you really understand how to read the bible in a real & fun way. She is not coming from a liberal perspective but ...... i won't wreck the book. She is an evangelical.
"A new kind of Christianity" by Brian McLaren
Now he also has a book called a new kind of christian so don't mix them up. All of his books are good though. Let me be VERY honest though. When I first read him I only agreed with him about 25%. I had allot of problems with some of the things he suggested BUT on the things I did connect with him on were LIFESAVING. I mean I really needed to read him. Now I probably agree with him on 75% and I'm quite sure that is about as good as its gonna get with him. But this book is good.
Unlike Rachel he is coming from more of a Mainline direction.
"Love Wins" by Rob Bell
Don't totally agree with everything but his ideas are very good. I'm a big fan of this book.
Also one of my children loves the book "Fall to Grace" by Jay Bakker
(yes that is Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker's son if you remember them from the 80's) I have not read this but they says its good. I'd read these others first though. He is probably the MOST progressive.
All these books have helped me on my spiritual journey. I began to realize I'm not alone, I'm not crazy and I'm not a heretic. I still believe in the atonement of Jesus, though many in the emergent movement don't so much (though they do still believe that Jesus is the way). I still believe that even if you use other religious practices, methods etc. that its still Jesus that saves. In other words I think there is only one way to God but many ways to Jesus, even if its not by the english name. I don't think Religion is from God I think its man made (see last post). So that is why many religions have methodologies that are pretty good at connecting with God. For example, the heart and soul of Buddhism is Karma which I don't believe in. I think Jesus is going to get us all to heaven whether we deserve it or not. BUT I do think that there are allot of buddhist practices that are great for connecting with God. Many of their meditation rituals are better than the Christian Religion. The only leg up the Christian Religion has is that it knows Jesus is the way (AT LEAST IN THEORY ..... HAHA)
So I still think like I always have that Jesus has made a way for us all. Much of my core theology hasn't changed. But I do see & read the bible different, I do think God's grace is wider than I once thought and I do think that we MUST find a way to be disciples known by love.
I'm not sure what bible so many christians are reading & I don't know how they are making themselves think that they are on the right track but WOW, what I see in Jesus is not what I usually see in churches, at least most of them.
Most christians seem to be hoping people won't get it while I think God is trying to get in ALL he can. I think God is up to something, salvation wise, much bigger than anything any of us could have ever imagined!!
I really hope this book list will help you. I'm quite certain that it will if you are open minded AND you don't have to feel like you agree with everything. Even if you only agree with 5 or 10% I'm sure you will find answers that you could not have found anywhere else!!
Enjoy!
Emergent is a VERY hard thing to explain. Its basically the idea that something "new" is emerging. To me its a bit like the idea of the Phoenix. You know the Phoenix dies & then out of the ashes arises a new one. So many think this is sort of like a new reformation. To me its kind of like nailing jello to the wall because you have all sorts of folks in the emergent conversation from many different perspectives. There are conservatives coming from the evangelical direction & there are also liberals coming from more of a mainline direction. So there is no doctrinal statement for the Emerging Church.
Now people are using the term Emergent less and starting to use "progressive Christian". I think what drives these people together is that they want to be known by their love. They are tired of a non loving, hypocritical church. They are tired of the world thinking we hate them. They usually aren't into legislating morality. Many of them support gay rights even if they think its still a sin. Most probably are pretty loose with that though and in some ways support monogamous faithful unions of any kind. They would say the bible never addresses that. Well I'm still evolving on that but my very dear friends that love the Lord and are gay are really helping me see things from a whole new light.
Anyway that at least gives you some idea of Emergent & Progressive. I think if you were to talk to 10 different theologians or pastors you'd probably get 6 different answers!!
Now these books I'm going to recommend are books to help you in an introductory way. I will list them in the order I'd read them too.
"Evolving in Monkey Town" by Rachel Held Evans
This book will just help you really understand how to read the bible in a real & fun way. She is not coming from a liberal perspective but ...... i won't wreck the book. She is an evangelical.
"A new kind of Christianity" by Brian McLaren
Now he also has a book called a new kind of christian so don't mix them up. All of his books are good though. Let me be VERY honest though. When I first read him I only agreed with him about 25%. I had allot of problems with some of the things he suggested BUT on the things I did connect with him on were LIFESAVING. I mean I really needed to read him. Now I probably agree with him on 75% and I'm quite sure that is about as good as its gonna get with him. But this book is good.
Unlike Rachel he is coming from more of a Mainline direction.
"Love Wins" by Rob Bell
Don't totally agree with everything but his ideas are very good. I'm a big fan of this book.
Also one of my children loves the book "Fall to Grace" by Jay Bakker
(yes that is Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker's son if you remember them from the 80's) I have not read this but they says its good. I'd read these others first though. He is probably the MOST progressive.
All these books have helped me on my spiritual journey. I began to realize I'm not alone, I'm not crazy and I'm not a heretic. I still believe in the atonement of Jesus, though many in the emergent movement don't so much (though they do still believe that Jesus is the way). I still believe that even if you use other religious practices, methods etc. that its still Jesus that saves. In other words I think there is only one way to God but many ways to Jesus, even if its not by the english name. I don't think Religion is from God I think its man made (see last post). So that is why many religions have methodologies that are pretty good at connecting with God. For example, the heart and soul of Buddhism is Karma which I don't believe in. I think Jesus is going to get us all to heaven whether we deserve it or not. BUT I do think that there are allot of buddhist practices that are great for connecting with God. Many of their meditation rituals are better than the Christian Religion. The only leg up the Christian Religion has is that it knows Jesus is the way (AT LEAST IN THEORY ..... HAHA)
So I still think like I always have that Jesus has made a way for us all. Much of my core theology hasn't changed. But I do see & read the bible different, I do think God's grace is wider than I once thought and I do think that we MUST find a way to be disciples known by love.
I'm not sure what bible so many christians are reading & I don't know how they are making themselves think that they are on the right track but WOW, what I see in Jesus is not what I usually see in churches, at least most of them.
Most christians seem to be hoping people won't get it while I think God is trying to get in ALL he can. I think God is up to something, salvation wise, much bigger than anything any of us could have ever imagined!!
I really hope this book list will help you. I'm quite certain that it will if you are open minded AND you don't have to feel like you agree with everything. Even if you only agree with 5 or 10% I'm sure you will find answers that you could not have found anywhere else!!
Enjoy!
Saturday, June 30, 2012
Religion is man made
I came across a blog conversation that was talking about "religion" and how so many like to say now that they are spiritual but not religious. Or following Jesus but not religious. Many are working hard to avoid being associated with being religious.
I think its because religion is man made, built to connect with God. Some religions have obviously done better than others. In saying this I think there are many methodologies that we can adopt from many religions that can help us connect with God. I still think Jesus is the catalyst though. I think he is the crux of history. The one who will put all things right. Now I'm a firm believer in what is known as Ultimate Reconciliation, which means eventually the world, the animals & all people will be reconciled to God. Can't tell you exactly how but I feel quite strongly about this. I'm not one to say that the Bible is all God's word either. I think the Gospels are the most authoritative. But there is quite a bit of evidence for Ultimate Reconciliation. Now this is not Pluralism. Pluralism says that there are many ways to God. I still think Jesus is the way to God, even if people aren't aware of that.
So I think the point of spirituality is connecting with God. God's point of connecting with us the best has been Jesus. I don't think either one ever wanted to start a religion. There are tons of discussions about TRUTH! I think what is cool about not being religious is that truth becomes a person. Its Jesus. Its God. I think where we go wrong is we're constantly trying to figure out truth in idea form instead of person form. Those that say they are defending or fighting for truth are simply defending ideas, doctrines, traditions, the bible; not Jesus or God.
I had a friend recently into Reiki that asked if she could send some energy my way. I'm like sure. I have no problem with other forms of connecting with God. Now I know people will disagree with me but I think Jesus has come to attract & reconcile all. There will be different ways people discover Jesus, sometimes maybe not even by the english name.
Jesus said seek & you will find. I believe it wholeheartedly. True spiritual truth seekers will find much more than ideas or a perfect religions or perfect traditions or perfect scholarship. They will simply find Jesus. There may not be many ways to God, but I believe there are many ways to Jesus. Religion is probably the one of the worst ways to really connect.
I think its because religion is man made, built to connect with God. Some religions have obviously done better than others. In saying this I think there are many methodologies that we can adopt from many religions that can help us connect with God. I still think Jesus is the catalyst though. I think he is the crux of history. The one who will put all things right. Now I'm a firm believer in what is known as Ultimate Reconciliation, which means eventually the world, the animals & all people will be reconciled to God. Can't tell you exactly how but I feel quite strongly about this. I'm not one to say that the Bible is all God's word either. I think the Gospels are the most authoritative. But there is quite a bit of evidence for Ultimate Reconciliation. Now this is not Pluralism. Pluralism says that there are many ways to God. I still think Jesus is the way to God, even if people aren't aware of that.
So I think the point of spirituality is connecting with God. God's point of connecting with us the best has been Jesus. I don't think either one ever wanted to start a religion. There are tons of discussions about TRUTH! I think what is cool about not being religious is that truth becomes a person. Its Jesus. Its God. I think where we go wrong is we're constantly trying to figure out truth in idea form instead of person form. Those that say they are defending or fighting for truth are simply defending ideas, doctrines, traditions, the bible; not Jesus or God.
I had a friend recently into Reiki that asked if she could send some energy my way. I'm like sure. I have no problem with other forms of connecting with God. Now I know people will disagree with me but I think Jesus has come to attract & reconcile all. There will be different ways people discover Jesus, sometimes maybe not even by the english name.
Jesus said seek & you will find. I believe it wholeheartedly. True spiritual truth seekers will find much more than ideas or a perfect religions or perfect traditions or perfect scholarship. They will simply find Jesus. There may not be many ways to God, but I believe there are many ways to Jesus. Religion is probably the one of the worst ways to really connect.
Thursday, June 28, 2012
The breaking of the broken
On the spiritual journey I've been on for many years there have been some amazing experiences I would never trade. There have also been some terrible things, oddly enough I wouldn't trade those either. So in some way the things that break us can bring more than just brokenness. At least that is my experience. You wouldn't think that this could be possible. Jesus seemed to show in his death that ultimate breaking of the broken can have another result other than the one we would expect. The end of the story there? Resurrection.
The church & christians have been the primary source of breaking me down. Disillusionment, in my opinion, really finds its way to all our doorsteps at some point in life. For me the crash was hard. I kept going outwardly but inside and when I was alone I was broken. It was a darkness that was depressing.
In the process I began to question many things. Of course in doing so I had a great deal of guilt for questioning the bible or a great deal of fear with ideas of thinking eternal conscious torment might not even be biblical, let alone reality. Then to question the love of the church. I felt horrible. But the more I questioned the more I saw that questions could provide an even better foundation for my faith than answers. That may sound strange but so does the breaking of the broken leading to resurrection.
I love the Phoenix and all the mythologies surrounding it. The idea of it rising out of the ashes is beautiful. After a long life it makes a nest and then the nest & bird combust into ashes. Then out of the ashes arises a new Phoenix.
There is also a story in the Old Testament of a man named Jacob who wrested with God (or the angel of the Lord, however you view that). You would think this would make God mad, instead God was quite impressed and changed his name to Israel. The limp Jacob had the rest of his life was actually more a reminder of the fact that he didn't lose in the end, he held on. It was a victory of sorts, but not in any conventional way.
So I think that brokenness can lead to resurrection. I believe questions & walking through mysterious darkness lead us to light. I think a phoenix can die and a new one can rise out of the ashes. I think wrestling with God is okay, even if it leaves us with a limp.
There are so many leaving the church, or to put it better leaving the christians in those churches. The church has attached itself to the Empire. In a sense like the Hunger Games. The churches are mostly in the capital. I firmly believe though that Jesus is worth trusting. I believe there was a creator. I think there has been a huge disconnect from the reality of God and most people's perceptions of God.
We have two choices. We can either be like Jacob and hold on for dear life or we can let go. We can be like a normal bird who dies or like a phoenix who dies only to find a new phoenix rising out of the ashes. We can either believe that the bible is clear and has all the answers or that it has more contradictions and mystery than anyone would care to admit making embracing mystery & asking questions a sign of holiness rather than heretic. Finally we can either choose to stay down when broken, or we can rise as Jesus did.
See the keys. Hold on. New life. Mystery is reality. Questions are wise.
The breaking of the broken can lead to death when people give up. It also has the possibility of resurrection when we hold on to Jesus.
I definitely have a few limps from life. But as I'm limping into the future I have this hope & joy in the awe & wonder of the mystery of God that I never had when the journey started.
Thursday, June 14, 2012
Atonement and the Answer of Jesus
I recently listened to a blog that was talking about the atonement. It's one of the issues that comes up frequently in this whole "emergent conversation".
(btw, if you don't know some of the words I use just email me at logenbyrne@gmail.com or FB me at logen byrne & I'd be happy to explain .... It took me years to figure them all out)
Make sure you join the Sacred Emergence FB group too.
Anyway this commentator mentioned that we all know the atonement is a solution. It's just a question on what the solution is for. He has a PHD so I consider him a pretty knowledgeable theologian. He said the 1st 1000 years after Christ the church saw the atonement was a solution to Satan being the ruler of this world. We sold the world, God bought it back. He then suggested that the 2nd 1000 years it became about substitutional atonement. This is like CS Lewis writes in the Chronicles of Narnia when Edmond sold out, Aslan (the God/Jesus figure) makes a deal with the Queen (Satan) according to the ancient magic that if someone sins someone else can choose to take their place.
Both seem good & plausible. I actually think I've probably thought the first one was true more even though I often heard the words Substitutionary Atonement.
What some in the Emergent Conversation are saying is that this substitutional atonement idea does is it individualizes everything. Whole households did seem to get saved in the bible like Lydia's in Acts 16. Of course we don't know for sure if they all made decisions or if it was Lydia. We pretty much think we all are the center of things. In the OT God was about community all the time. Not sure he would change that much with the New Covenant.
So then the person being interviewed suggested that perhaps in the next 1000 years we might begin to see it another way. The problem being systemic and the atonement is a redemption of the all things. Colossians 1:20 and Romans 5:18
I really don't know what happens after we die. I don't know for sure what the atonement solves. But I do trust that Jesus is the answer. Whatever may be I've accepted him & proclaim him as the only Savior. So even if others who weren't "christians" get to heaven then I would still say its through Jesus even if they don't know it.
Billy Graham actually suggested this on his last interview with Larry King. Larry asked him what about that person that has never heard the name of Jesus. Billy said well if they have responded to whatever light God has given them he believes that Jesus will save them. Quite a statement for Billy Graham to make.
With all the evil in the world, an atonement that solves a systemic problem would be huge. I just want as many to be with God as possible. Romans is a real awesome book. I'm sure that was what Peter was referring to when he said that some things Paul taught were even hard for him to understand. But just like with other issues, there are verses like Romans 5:18 that make you wonder.
Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to the justification and life for all. ROMANS 5:18
So please comment & let me know what you think of the atonement!!! There really is no way to avoid verses that contradict one another. Whether we like to admit it or not we all pick and choose. Author, Rachel Held Evans, addresses this in her first book "Evolving in Monkey Town" and I think might be really addressing how we look at the bible even more with her new book coming out in September "A year of Biblical Womanhood". She is the best Evangelical to really shine light into how we hold our beliefs & how we read the bible. I highly recommend her. She isn't saying we shouldn't have beliefs & opinions BUT rather we should hold them with an open hand. I'm sure those living in the days where they figured out the earth wasn't the center of the universe & didn't move (all backed up with Bible Verses which in their context could easily be understood the way they did) that were holding their beliefs with an open hand had allot less egg on their faces than those who held them tightly & arrogantly!
(btw, if you don't know some of the words I use just email me at logenbyrne@gmail.com or FB me at logen byrne & I'd be happy to explain .... It took me years to figure them all out)
Make sure you join the Sacred Emergence FB group too.
Anyway this commentator mentioned that we all know the atonement is a solution. It's just a question on what the solution is for. He has a PHD so I consider him a pretty knowledgeable theologian. He said the 1st 1000 years after Christ the church saw the atonement was a solution to Satan being the ruler of this world. We sold the world, God bought it back. He then suggested that the 2nd 1000 years it became about substitutional atonement. This is like CS Lewis writes in the Chronicles of Narnia when Edmond sold out, Aslan (the God/Jesus figure) makes a deal with the Queen (Satan) according to the ancient magic that if someone sins someone else can choose to take their place.
Both seem good & plausible. I actually think I've probably thought the first one was true more even though I often heard the words Substitutionary Atonement.
What some in the Emergent Conversation are saying is that this substitutional atonement idea does is it individualizes everything. Whole households did seem to get saved in the bible like Lydia's in Acts 16. Of course we don't know for sure if they all made decisions or if it was Lydia. We pretty much think we all are the center of things. In the OT God was about community all the time. Not sure he would change that much with the New Covenant.
So then the person being interviewed suggested that perhaps in the next 1000 years we might begin to see it another way. The problem being systemic and the atonement is a redemption of the all things. Colossians 1:20 and Romans 5:18
I really don't know what happens after we die. I don't know for sure what the atonement solves. But I do trust that Jesus is the answer. Whatever may be I've accepted him & proclaim him as the only Savior. So even if others who weren't "christians" get to heaven then I would still say its through Jesus even if they don't know it.
Billy Graham actually suggested this on his last interview with Larry King. Larry asked him what about that person that has never heard the name of Jesus. Billy said well if they have responded to whatever light God has given them he believes that Jesus will save them. Quite a statement for Billy Graham to make.
With all the evil in the world, an atonement that solves a systemic problem would be huge. I just want as many to be with God as possible. Romans is a real awesome book. I'm sure that was what Peter was referring to when he said that some things Paul taught were even hard for him to understand. But just like with other issues, there are verses like Romans 5:18 that make you wonder.
Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to the justification and life for all. ROMANS 5:18
So please comment & let me know what you think of the atonement!!! There really is no way to avoid verses that contradict one another. Whether we like to admit it or not we all pick and choose. Author, Rachel Held Evans, addresses this in her first book "Evolving in Monkey Town" and I think might be really addressing how we look at the bible even more with her new book coming out in September "A year of Biblical Womanhood". She is the best Evangelical to really shine light into how we hold our beliefs & how we read the bible. I highly recommend her. She isn't saying we shouldn't have beliefs & opinions BUT rather we should hold them with an open hand. I'm sure those living in the days where they figured out the earth wasn't the center of the universe & didn't move (all backed up with Bible Verses which in their context could easily be understood the way they did) that were holding their beliefs with an open hand had allot less egg on their faces than those who held them tightly & arrogantly!
Friday, June 8, 2012
President Obama and Gay Marriage
So President Obama came out finally in support of Gay Marriage. I'd love to have some conversations about this! I actually can see people who think being gay is a sin & those who don't both potentially support gay marriage. I don't think when it comes to civil rights Christians never can support anything they don't agree with morally as a Christian. Unless we want to be like the muslims & enforce a Christian version of Sharia law. I hope that is not what we are shooting for.
One of my favorite authors is Tony Campolo. I just think he is amazing. I'm not exactly sure where he stands on all the gay issues but he used to think it was okay to be a Christian & be gay, but then you would need to be celibate. His wife disagreed & thought that being gay was okay with God & so was marriage. Neither one of course would go for sleeping around for either heterosexuals or homosexuals. So here was a husband & wife that had differing views. They actually would do debates on college campuses with each other and interact with the crowd. I would have loved to have taken in one of those meetings. Basically Tony thought the "acting out" of homosexuality was a sin but that you could still be a Christian and be a homosexual. Being that way was fine as long as you didn't act on it. For many years this was the "middle ground" stance. I'm not sure where he stands today so I wouldn't want to speak for him but that had been his stance for a long long time.
When asked about Gay marriage recently he kind of turned the question around. What we are arguing is should the STATE allow this. Its not the church issue at all. He has been saying that he doesn't know why the Government EVER was allowed into the "marriage" business. Marriage should be a church thing. Any church should be able to follow their convictions regarding marriage and be free to marry or not marry anyone they want. Then likewise, the Government can do unions for whoever they want. Religion doesn't even need to play a part in it if people don't want it to.
I found this compelling. Why are the state & church so intertwined on marriage? Should they be. Isn't this why we wanted separation of church & state in the first place. And by fighting against gay marriage with it being so intertwined could we be setting ourselves up to be forced to marry someone against our convictions?
I'm just saying that maybe be fighting for fair rights for ALL, we can keep the great freedoms we have in our country. To be religious if you want to be or to feel free not to be religious. And if you're not religious why should the church be involved in marriage at all? Why should I pronounce someone husband & wife by the power invested in me by the state? What do they have to do with marriage? And what does the church have to do with civil unions? And if a church wants to do gay marriages why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
I just think there should be equality for all. There is plenty of space for all of us to freely live our lives with minimal government involvement. There is plenty of space for religious people & non religious people. My opinion is that we have to stop trying to FORCE ourselves on the other side. Why should anyone be offended when someone puts up a nativity scene on their property or the lights on a skyscraper they own be in the shape of a cross. Why should anyone be offended by that. In the same manner, why do we as Christians have to be offended by gay marriage. No minister or church is going to be forced to perform marriages they don't want to. There are many rules that many churches have on marriage. Some church will not do weddings if either of the two getting married has been divorced. The government doesn't step in then, & they won't with the gay issue either.
Love to hear what you all think? Questions? Answers? Solutions? Other ideas? Fire away!
One of my favorite authors is Tony Campolo. I just think he is amazing. I'm not exactly sure where he stands on all the gay issues but he used to think it was okay to be a Christian & be gay, but then you would need to be celibate. His wife disagreed & thought that being gay was okay with God & so was marriage. Neither one of course would go for sleeping around for either heterosexuals or homosexuals. So here was a husband & wife that had differing views. They actually would do debates on college campuses with each other and interact with the crowd. I would have loved to have taken in one of those meetings. Basically Tony thought the "acting out" of homosexuality was a sin but that you could still be a Christian and be a homosexual. Being that way was fine as long as you didn't act on it. For many years this was the "middle ground" stance. I'm not sure where he stands today so I wouldn't want to speak for him but that had been his stance for a long long time.
When asked about Gay marriage recently he kind of turned the question around. What we are arguing is should the STATE allow this. Its not the church issue at all. He has been saying that he doesn't know why the Government EVER was allowed into the "marriage" business. Marriage should be a church thing. Any church should be able to follow their convictions regarding marriage and be free to marry or not marry anyone they want. Then likewise, the Government can do unions for whoever they want. Religion doesn't even need to play a part in it if people don't want it to.
I found this compelling. Why are the state & church so intertwined on marriage? Should they be. Isn't this why we wanted separation of church & state in the first place. And by fighting against gay marriage with it being so intertwined could we be setting ourselves up to be forced to marry someone against our convictions?
I'm just saying that maybe be fighting for fair rights for ALL, we can keep the great freedoms we have in our country. To be religious if you want to be or to feel free not to be religious. And if you're not religious why should the church be involved in marriage at all? Why should I pronounce someone husband & wife by the power invested in me by the state? What do they have to do with marriage? And what does the church have to do with civil unions? And if a church wants to do gay marriages why shouldn't they be allowed to do so?
I just think there should be equality for all. There is plenty of space for all of us to freely live our lives with minimal government involvement. There is plenty of space for religious people & non religious people. My opinion is that we have to stop trying to FORCE ourselves on the other side. Why should anyone be offended when someone puts up a nativity scene on their property or the lights on a skyscraper they own be in the shape of a cross. Why should anyone be offended by that. In the same manner, why do we as Christians have to be offended by gay marriage. No minister or church is going to be forced to perform marriages they don't want to. There are many rules that many churches have on marriage. Some church will not do weddings if either of the two getting married has been divorced. The government doesn't step in then, & they won't with the gay issue either.
Love to hear what you all think? Questions? Answers? Solutions? Other ideas? Fire away!
Wednesday, June 6, 2012
The grass is ALWAYS greener
I've have learned through allot of life experience, traveling the world, being in war zones, you name it. Worked for many different organizations. But there is one thing that I've discovered. I've never found the grass to be greener on the other side. Have you?
I mean sometimes we do need a change but the change is not going to help us leave behind what probably troubles us the most. YOU. I know that has been the case with me. I try to go to greener grass but I just keep following myself.
That is why there is also danger in a movement where people are talking about change. We must always ask questions like "why are you asking about change". "Why do you want change"? "What is it you're really looking for"?
Sure the church has problems, but we could totally re-invent a new church & it might not really change anything. Why? Because of us.
We could change all the theology that seems wrong or unbiblical or ungodly or unloving but in the end we still have to face ourselves in the mirror everyday.
Often I find when I'm around people that would consider themselves progressive christians or emergent that they are asking great questions but I fear at times it might be for the wrong reasons.
Liberals & Conservatives can be the same. Holding on to their extremes just because.
My point in this post is really JESUS. He said if we seek we would find. I think true seekers will find truth all over the place. I think it will be artistic, traditional, modern, liturgical, unplanned, and the best adventure we have ever been on.
But we have to make sure, no matter where we are at, that we are seeking Jesus & not just trying to step up to the religious smorgasbord & take whatever pleases us. If God turns out to be mean what the hell can we do about that? Even if he is we'd be stupid not to bow down to him. He could crush us. God is who God is. We always seem to be approaching him for a relationship but we already know what he is like. That would be like my wife saying I love Duke Basketball. And I reply no you don't. The wife I know does not like Duke. She is like standing there saying, but I do :-) no matter what you believe.
We have to make sure our pre-conceived ideas of God don't cloud our seeking. We also have to make sure our frustrations with any current theology or church doesn't make us go looking for something that looks greener but might not be.
I am a seeker. I love Jesus. I am progressive. I am pentecostal (thought my definition is probably unique to me). I am a follower of Jesus. But as I seek & as I journey together with the Holy Spirit and with others truth constantly unveils itself. Sometimes in ways I would never imagine. AND if anyone tells you that they agree with everything about God and with everything he thinks then run fast :-) I mean I have things I learn sometimes that I say to God, man that isn't the way I would have done it. That is the way a relationship works. You learn about each other, you sharpen each other & you grow. There are some things that I'm sure are true & I'm just like, God, I know that but because of my upbringing as an American that bothers me. There are other things that I have been sold by others as well that because of my upbringing I'm sure that is what God thinks or is like AND then I find out they are wrong.
Being a seeker is not easy but at least comes with a promise of finding!! If Jesus is truly what we are looking for we will find him. And I'm quite sure we'll get all the same debates & controversy that he got.
We have to be willing to really have a relationship with God. One that holds beliefs loosely. One that is open. Our view of God could be wrong. Others view could be wrong. God could be saying something totally different than we thought. I would be impossible for people & cultures for 2000 years to all be right when they have all been so different. So relate to God, talk to God, be honest with God about your feelings! Learn & grow as you seek. There is something a seeker can learn almost everyday, from anybody.
I love the Emergent movement & I love being progressive but I'm NOT just doing it to do it & I want people to know it. I'm seeking Jesus & this is where my seeking him & only him has led me. I'm NOT looking for a grass to be greener I'm looking to know Jesus & the power of his resurrection. All I can say is I've never seen more growth & more revelation from the Holy Spirit & I have never been MORE able to say no to sin since I've began the journey down the Emergent path. I'm telling you this freedom is amazing. This complete freedom from all Fundamentalism & all legalism has brought me to a place where my motivation isn't to not sin but to walk with Jesus. Its been insane to start living inside out instead of all those years I lived outside in. If the proof is in the pudding then the fact that my greatly increased overcoming of sin is proof enough for me that this seeker is finding the only one that could possibly help us overcome. You can't overcome on your own.
Outer transformation has its ups & downs. Inner transformation is just out of this world.
So there you have it. I'm not trying to be cool or relevant. If you heard me preach you'd know that. I'm trying to continue on this spiritual path with Jesus for the right reasons and with the right motivation coming from the right spot ..... inside from the Holy Spirit.
Its hard for people to accept the fact that there may be 20 denominations that God can equally work thru who have different strengths & weaknesses. There may be even other faiths that God can work through. Who says we have the corner on the market to methodology? Don't get me wrong, I don't think there are many ways to God, but I do think there are many ways to Jesus, even sometimes when people don't know his name. We want it all to be figured out. All black & white. We want to find the best way. The best rules. The best church. The best denomination. I'm not sure God has ever seen things from this perspective that we often embrace. What if its not about being the most right or in the best place ...... what if it is really just about Jesus. Loving God with all your heart & loving your neighbor as yourself. What if allot of things we think are so important are just side issues. I am just going to keep fixing my eyes on Jesus, the author & perfecter of my faith. Right, wrong & best isn't going to have anything to do with getting us into heaven. Jesus is the only way!
I mean sometimes we do need a change but the change is not going to help us leave behind what probably troubles us the most. YOU. I know that has been the case with me. I try to go to greener grass but I just keep following myself.
That is why there is also danger in a movement where people are talking about change. We must always ask questions like "why are you asking about change". "Why do you want change"? "What is it you're really looking for"?
Sure the church has problems, but we could totally re-invent a new church & it might not really change anything. Why? Because of us.
We could change all the theology that seems wrong or unbiblical or ungodly or unloving but in the end we still have to face ourselves in the mirror everyday.
Often I find when I'm around people that would consider themselves progressive christians or emergent that they are asking great questions but I fear at times it might be for the wrong reasons.
Liberals & Conservatives can be the same. Holding on to their extremes just because.
My point in this post is really JESUS. He said if we seek we would find. I think true seekers will find truth all over the place. I think it will be artistic, traditional, modern, liturgical, unplanned, and the best adventure we have ever been on.
But we have to make sure, no matter where we are at, that we are seeking Jesus & not just trying to step up to the religious smorgasbord & take whatever pleases us. If God turns out to be mean what the hell can we do about that? Even if he is we'd be stupid not to bow down to him. He could crush us. God is who God is. We always seem to be approaching him for a relationship but we already know what he is like. That would be like my wife saying I love Duke Basketball. And I reply no you don't. The wife I know does not like Duke. She is like standing there saying, but I do :-) no matter what you believe.
We have to make sure our pre-conceived ideas of God don't cloud our seeking. We also have to make sure our frustrations with any current theology or church doesn't make us go looking for something that looks greener but might not be.
I am a seeker. I love Jesus. I am progressive. I am pentecostal (thought my definition is probably unique to me). I am a follower of Jesus. But as I seek & as I journey together with the Holy Spirit and with others truth constantly unveils itself. Sometimes in ways I would never imagine. AND if anyone tells you that they agree with everything about God and with everything he thinks then run fast :-) I mean I have things I learn sometimes that I say to God, man that isn't the way I would have done it. That is the way a relationship works. You learn about each other, you sharpen each other & you grow. There are some things that I'm sure are true & I'm just like, God, I know that but because of my upbringing as an American that bothers me. There are other things that I have been sold by others as well that because of my upbringing I'm sure that is what God thinks or is like AND then I find out they are wrong.
Being a seeker is not easy but at least comes with a promise of finding!! If Jesus is truly what we are looking for we will find him. And I'm quite sure we'll get all the same debates & controversy that he got.
We have to be willing to really have a relationship with God. One that holds beliefs loosely. One that is open. Our view of God could be wrong. Others view could be wrong. God could be saying something totally different than we thought. I would be impossible for people & cultures for 2000 years to all be right when they have all been so different. So relate to God, talk to God, be honest with God about your feelings! Learn & grow as you seek. There is something a seeker can learn almost everyday, from anybody.
I love the Emergent movement & I love being progressive but I'm NOT just doing it to do it & I want people to know it. I'm seeking Jesus & this is where my seeking him & only him has led me. I'm NOT looking for a grass to be greener I'm looking to know Jesus & the power of his resurrection. All I can say is I've never seen more growth & more revelation from the Holy Spirit & I have never been MORE able to say no to sin since I've began the journey down the Emergent path. I'm telling you this freedom is amazing. This complete freedom from all Fundamentalism & all legalism has brought me to a place where my motivation isn't to not sin but to walk with Jesus. Its been insane to start living inside out instead of all those years I lived outside in. If the proof is in the pudding then the fact that my greatly increased overcoming of sin is proof enough for me that this seeker is finding the only one that could possibly help us overcome. You can't overcome on your own.
Outer transformation has its ups & downs. Inner transformation is just out of this world.
So there you have it. I'm not trying to be cool or relevant. If you heard me preach you'd know that. I'm trying to continue on this spiritual path with Jesus for the right reasons and with the right motivation coming from the right spot ..... inside from the Holy Spirit.
Its hard for people to accept the fact that there may be 20 denominations that God can equally work thru who have different strengths & weaknesses. There may be even other faiths that God can work through. Who says we have the corner on the market to methodology? Don't get me wrong, I don't think there are many ways to God, but I do think there are many ways to Jesus, even sometimes when people don't know his name. We want it all to be figured out. All black & white. We want to find the best way. The best rules. The best church. The best denomination. I'm not sure God has ever seen things from this perspective that we often embrace. What if its not about being the most right or in the best place ...... what if it is really just about Jesus. Loving God with all your heart & loving your neighbor as yourself. What if allot of things we think are so important are just side issues. I am just going to keep fixing my eyes on Jesus, the author & perfecter of my faith. Right, wrong & best isn't going to have anything to do with getting us into heaven. Jesus is the only way!
Monday, June 4, 2012
Ain't No Homo Going to Heaven
boy singing in church. ain't no homo going to heaven.
Here is the link to the an article & video from CNN's page that shows a small kid singing a song & he comes to a line "Ain't no Homo going to heaven". The church erupts with a standing ovation, you can hear the father yell, "that's my boy", and then the Pastor & the church want an encore, but just of that one line. So he sings it again to wild cheers.
A month ago there was the pastor from North Carolina saying we need to put them all in an electric fence. Here is that link.
The North Carolina Pastor Who wants gays inside an electric fence
Ya just put the gays in one fence. The Lesbians in another. We'll drop in food but eventually they will die out & we can purge ourselves of them.
THEN there was a Kansas preacher, Pastor Curtis Knapp, who waded in. Here is the link to that.
pastor curtis knapp and a summary of many things like this
Pastor Knapp actually said in a sermon that the government should kill all the Gays & Lesbians. He goes on to say that he hopes for their salvation and not their death & that he "loves" them.
So there are really many issues here. It's complicated. Everything Gay doesn't just fit into one conversation that comes out black or white.
First, there is the issue of what one thinks of homosexuality. ie: is it right or wrong.
Second, there is the issue of how we should treat them & speak of them IF we think its wrong.
Third, there is the issue of gay marriage. Obviously if you think being Gay is okay then you are more likely to not have an issue with gay marriage. But would it be okay to think gay marriage is okay IF you thought Homosexuality was wrong? That, I think, is a VERY interesting question :-)
Fourth, how do we read the bible. Are we being to literal sometimes. Are we missing some things because we have been always taught to think from a certain perspective. Pastor Knapp reads from Leviticus and says the Government should kill them. Leviticus was what the guys were quoting to Jesus when the woman was caught in Adultery & yet his response was let him without sin cast the first stone. Seems as though Pastor Knapp might be upset with Jesus?!
Finally, how do we react to these seemingly crazy people, churches & situations. Obviously, or I should saying hopefully, most churches wouldn't allow these things to be said. But we can't control everyone. We can only control ourselves. So no matter what we think about this being right or wrong, there is allot to think about & allot of responsibility I think on those who really want to follow Christ.
I have not yet arrived at any solid opinion or answer overall. But I'm sure upset by all this.
I think I'll leave this post at this. Please respond on here so we can get some comments on the blog & pass it along to your friends. What do you think??
Here is the link to the an article & video from CNN's page that shows a small kid singing a song & he comes to a line "Ain't no Homo going to heaven". The church erupts with a standing ovation, you can hear the father yell, "that's my boy", and then the Pastor & the church want an encore, but just of that one line. So he sings it again to wild cheers.
A month ago there was the pastor from North Carolina saying we need to put them all in an electric fence. Here is that link.
The North Carolina Pastor Who wants gays inside an electric fence
Ya just put the gays in one fence. The Lesbians in another. We'll drop in food but eventually they will die out & we can purge ourselves of them.
THEN there was a Kansas preacher, Pastor Curtis Knapp, who waded in. Here is the link to that.
pastor curtis knapp and a summary of many things like this
Pastor Knapp actually said in a sermon that the government should kill all the Gays & Lesbians. He goes on to say that he hopes for their salvation and not their death & that he "loves" them.
So there are really many issues here. It's complicated. Everything Gay doesn't just fit into one conversation that comes out black or white.
First, there is the issue of what one thinks of homosexuality. ie: is it right or wrong.
Second, there is the issue of how we should treat them & speak of them IF we think its wrong.
Third, there is the issue of gay marriage. Obviously if you think being Gay is okay then you are more likely to not have an issue with gay marriage. But would it be okay to think gay marriage is okay IF you thought Homosexuality was wrong? That, I think, is a VERY interesting question :-)
Fourth, how do we read the bible. Are we being to literal sometimes. Are we missing some things because we have been always taught to think from a certain perspective. Pastor Knapp reads from Leviticus and says the Government should kill them. Leviticus was what the guys were quoting to Jesus when the woman was caught in Adultery & yet his response was let him without sin cast the first stone. Seems as though Pastor Knapp might be upset with Jesus?!
Finally, how do we react to these seemingly crazy people, churches & situations. Obviously, or I should saying hopefully, most churches wouldn't allow these things to be said. But we can't control everyone. We can only control ourselves. So no matter what we think about this being right or wrong, there is allot to think about & allot of responsibility I think on those who really want to follow Christ.
I have not yet arrived at any solid opinion or answer overall. But I'm sure upset by all this.
I think I'll leave this post at this. Please respond on here so we can get some comments on the blog & pass it along to your friends. What do you think??
Saturday, June 2, 2012
Love the Sinner and Hate the Sin
Love the sinner & hate the sin is a phrase I've heard from my earliest stages of following Christ. It made sense at first, mostly because I just didn't really think about it. I was recently reminded about this when I got a note from a friend telling me that he did love Gay people but because he loved them he had to take a stand & speak out. So the idea of "loving" here is taking a stand & speaking out. I love them so much I have to tell them how bad they are & how awful their actions are & how terrible their eternity is going to be. When I heard this yesterday I was like whoa. This is insane. This isn't love, its actually pretty self serving. Let me explain.
If we look at the life of Jesus lets take a few examples of his view of loving sinners.
1. Woman at the well. Acknowledged the skeletons in her closet but unashamedly met with this woman of ill repute in public, encouraged her to worship in Spirit & truth and then she became the first Samaritan evangelist as this woman who once did all she could to avoid people who thought badly of her NOW went into the town & talked to EVERYONE & told them about Jesus. This love didn't seem to include taking a stand or a sermon.
2. Centurion & his slave boy. Jesus is confronted by a non religious soldier with a plea to heal his servant who is back home. We can be almost 99.9% sure that this Centurion was gay or at least bi-sexual. That was the trend and their young lovers were often armor bearers or servants. The last thing you could imagine is a tough non religious man seeking out a Rabbi with a reputation of conjuring wine at weddings & hanging out with some pretty shady people. It would be humiliating for him. He wouldn't hear the end of it from his fellow soldiers. To take this kind of action he must have truly loved this young man, most likely as a lover. This young man meant everything to him. There is no other explanation for a guy like him to seek out Jesus. But his faith is great & he says hey Jesus you don't have to even come to my house. I know how it works. You just say the word & this boy will be healed. This love Jesus showed also didn't seem to include taking a stand or a sermon. There was not even a tinge of judgmentalness in his words or actions. To the contrary. Here is a guy that isn't even a follower of Jesus and yet Jesus turns and tells his followers he has not seen faith like this in all of Israel.
finally ....
3. The woman caught in adultery. This should be a no brainer. She was hearing all sorts of sermons as they drug her to Jesus. They needed to take a stand. They needed to speak out. They could not let this kind of sin go without punishment! Jesus simply just crouched down & started writing in the sand. I would have loved to know if he was really writing something or just drawing. They demanded that she be killed by stoning. This was justice. If we really love people they need to learn. So Jesus replies, "let him without sin cast the first stone". Amazingly they all left one by one. It was just Jesus and the woman. He simply tells her to go and learn from her mistake. Don't do that again. Second chance? Yes. But did Jesus take a stand or speak out for what was right? Yes!
Jesus showed love by listening. By understanding. Through patience. His goal wasn't to take a stand on any issue or speak up for the truth. His heart was for the broken to find healing. All of these showed tremendous faith in spite of their troubles.
We often talk about the importance of not being ashamed of Jesus. I think the great thing is that Jesus is not ashamed of us.
Loving a sinner (ie: all of us) means being unashamed of being with them.
Loving a sinner means caring about their story.
Loving a sinner means grace, not judgement.
The truth is that we love sin & hate the sinner! Even the Apostle Paul talked about this. He said that he had a war going on inside. Often doing what he did not want to do & not doing what he wanted. We like to emphatically say we hate sin but the reality is that if we really did hate it we would stop sinning.
Jesus is the only one that could really say he hated sin. He was perfect, yet he came to love & heal rather than judge. I don't think there is any way we could possibly know or understand what the Spirit of God is doing in another's life. What we think they should deal with first might not even by on God's list yet.
This is why ALL who want to follow Jesus should be able to be filled with the Holy Spirit & encourage one another along in the journey. We disqualify some sinners from being able to be a Christian before said sin is dealt with while we allow other sins to take root in the church & grow out of control.
I think ALL sinners who want to follow Jesus have something to offer the kingdom of God and to the community of believers. If we continue to segregate we'll never thrive. What if its the gay person who can really truly help the gossip/slanderer because they have dealt with that long ago. What if the Pro Choice Democrat could help the liar or thief because they are strong in that area. What if the worshipper could help the John (men who buy sex) learn to raise his hands in freedom. We NEED each other!
Segregation makes us weak. Unity could make us strong.
Its not tolerance, its called community.
I cringe when I imagine how many churches & christians would handle this today. Everything becomes an issue. We must begin to pull back the veil of issues to reach the people behind them!
I have to be honest, I love sinners but I also love sin. I'm working on some things. Definitely a work in progress. But I want to follow Christ with a community that will walk with me & help heal my brokenness. I want to be that for others too. Think of what we could learn from each other & how we could grow if ALL who wanted to follow Christ would walk together, in one community?
Together I believe wholeness through Jesus Christ is VERY possible!!!
If we look at the life of Jesus lets take a few examples of his view of loving sinners.
1. Woman at the well. Acknowledged the skeletons in her closet but unashamedly met with this woman of ill repute in public, encouraged her to worship in Spirit & truth and then she became the first Samaritan evangelist as this woman who once did all she could to avoid people who thought badly of her NOW went into the town & talked to EVERYONE & told them about Jesus. This love didn't seem to include taking a stand or a sermon.
2. Centurion & his slave boy. Jesus is confronted by a non religious soldier with a plea to heal his servant who is back home. We can be almost 99.9% sure that this Centurion was gay or at least bi-sexual. That was the trend and their young lovers were often armor bearers or servants. The last thing you could imagine is a tough non religious man seeking out a Rabbi with a reputation of conjuring wine at weddings & hanging out with some pretty shady people. It would be humiliating for him. He wouldn't hear the end of it from his fellow soldiers. To take this kind of action he must have truly loved this young man, most likely as a lover. This young man meant everything to him. There is no other explanation for a guy like him to seek out Jesus. But his faith is great & he says hey Jesus you don't have to even come to my house. I know how it works. You just say the word & this boy will be healed. This love Jesus showed also didn't seem to include taking a stand or a sermon. There was not even a tinge of judgmentalness in his words or actions. To the contrary. Here is a guy that isn't even a follower of Jesus and yet Jesus turns and tells his followers he has not seen faith like this in all of Israel.
finally ....
3. The woman caught in adultery. This should be a no brainer. She was hearing all sorts of sermons as they drug her to Jesus. They needed to take a stand. They needed to speak out. They could not let this kind of sin go without punishment! Jesus simply just crouched down & started writing in the sand. I would have loved to know if he was really writing something or just drawing. They demanded that she be killed by stoning. This was justice. If we really love people they need to learn. So Jesus replies, "let him without sin cast the first stone". Amazingly they all left one by one. It was just Jesus and the woman. He simply tells her to go and learn from her mistake. Don't do that again. Second chance? Yes. But did Jesus take a stand or speak out for what was right? Yes!
Jesus showed love by listening. By understanding. Through patience. His goal wasn't to take a stand on any issue or speak up for the truth. His heart was for the broken to find healing. All of these showed tremendous faith in spite of their troubles.
We often talk about the importance of not being ashamed of Jesus. I think the great thing is that Jesus is not ashamed of us.
Loving a sinner (ie: all of us) means being unashamed of being with them.
Loving a sinner means caring about their story.
Loving a sinner means grace, not judgement.
The truth is that we love sin & hate the sinner! Even the Apostle Paul talked about this. He said that he had a war going on inside. Often doing what he did not want to do & not doing what he wanted. We like to emphatically say we hate sin but the reality is that if we really did hate it we would stop sinning.
Jesus is the only one that could really say he hated sin. He was perfect, yet he came to love & heal rather than judge. I don't think there is any way we could possibly know or understand what the Spirit of God is doing in another's life. What we think they should deal with first might not even by on God's list yet.
This is why ALL who want to follow Jesus should be able to be filled with the Holy Spirit & encourage one another along in the journey. We disqualify some sinners from being able to be a Christian before said sin is dealt with while we allow other sins to take root in the church & grow out of control.
I think ALL sinners who want to follow Jesus have something to offer the kingdom of God and to the community of believers. If we continue to segregate we'll never thrive. What if its the gay person who can really truly help the gossip/slanderer because they have dealt with that long ago. What if the Pro Choice Democrat could help the liar or thief because they are strong in that area. What if the worshipper could help the John (men who buy sex) learn to raise his hands in freedom. We NEED each other!
Segregation makes us weak. Unity could make us strong.
Its not tolerance, its called community.
I cringe when I imagine how many churches & christians would handle this today. Everything becomes an issue. We must begin to pull back the veil of issues to reach the people behind them!
I have to be honest, I love sinners but I also love sin. I'm working on some things. Definitely a work in progress. But I want to follow Christ with a community that will walk with me & help heal my brokenness. I want to be that for others too. Think of what we could learn from each other & how we could grow if ALL who wanted to follow Christ would walk together, in one community?
Together I believe wholeness through Jesus Christ is VERY possible!!!
What are the questions?
This is a complete 180 from the past. 20 years ago people wanted all the answers. It was like that for probably 200 years. Between the reformation & the start of the Revolutionary War it was all about discovery & argument, sometimes ending nice & sometimes ending in ashes. Before that the Catholic Church just pretty much said "trust us, we know what we are doing". Don't think about it, that's what Priests are for. Not like they were married or anything so they had plenty of extra time to figure everything out for everyone.
When I first started to realize that we were entering a new age I have to admit, it was a bit scary. My answers that had worked for the first few years of christian service just weren't working anymore. In fact, some seemed rather ridiculous!
Now I'm more interested in right questions than right answers. I've become completely okay with enjoying & even worshipping the "mystery" of God. Just because I'm getting to know him does not mean I know everything about him. I've been married awhile & I still don't know my wife completely. We used to be so afraid of mystery.
What excites me now is that many young believers, even as they are leaving churches, are embracing the mystery of God as if its some kind of exciting, alluring, exhilarating, challenging & FUN journey.
Mystery was bad long ago because of superstition, and there probably is a little left over from that. Mystery then was bad because of the enlightenment. We're to enlightened not to have all the answers. Then there has been the priest replacement, the bible. When the going gets tough now & answers aren't coming people will simply say "well I just believe the bible". Like that makes the mystery go away :-)
Now there is a new movement that has been going on for some time. The Emergent Conversation or the Emergent Village has been around for awhile but I have just joined the fray recently. Starting the journey towards progressiveness in the late 90's. Really closing in the last few years. This last year though, I've pretty much went "all in".
Words seem to mean allot. But the problem is what do they mean to those who use them. My friends started calling me liberal. So I began to hang out with liberals. Problem was I didn't fit in with the liberals any better than the conservatives. THEN I learned of this other word. Progressive. I can't really define it for you but at least I've figured out that is where I fit. I think its most about change & action working together to bring about the Kingdom of God. At least when defined from a Christian standpoint.
So this will certainly be a progressive conversation we'll be having on this blog. There might only be a few that ever read this but I'm not really writing this to change the world. I'm writing to express & understand the changes that are going on in me and trying to find others that are on the same journey. I want to know what questions others are asking. I want to have a conversation about life, love & God.
They say the word Emergent came along because it was going to be like another reformation. And that seems to be true. They used that to describe that something new was emerging but we just didn't know what. About every 500 years the church has a garage sale & gets rid of excess baggage & junk. I think its time to let the new reformation begin (which in our new vernacular is "deconstructing") and begin to watch & enjoy being able to really see what emerges.
When I first started to realize that we were entering a new age I have to admit, it was a bit scary. My answers that had worked for the first few years of christian service just weren't working anymore. In fact, some seemed rather ridiculous!
Now I'm more interested in right questions than right answers. I've become completely okay with enjoying & even worshipping the "mystery" of God. Just because I'm getting to know him does not mean I know everything about him. I've been married awhile & I still don't know my wife completely. We used to be so afraid of mystery.
What excites me now is that many young believers, even as they are leaving churches, are embracing the mystery of God as if its some kind of exciting, alluring, exhilarating, challenging & FUN journey.
Mystery was bad long ago because of superstition, and there probably is a little left over from that. Mystery then was bad because of the enlightenment. We're to enlightened not to have all the answers. Then there has been the priest replacement, the bible. When the going gets tough now & answers aren't coming people will simply say "well I just believe the bible". Like that makes the mystery go away :-)
Now there is a new movement that has been going on for some time. The Emergent Conversation or the Emergent Village has been around for awhile but I have just joined the fray recently. Starting the journey towards progressiveness in the late 90's. Really closing in the last few years. This last year though, I've pretty much went "all in".
Words seem to mean allot. But the problem is what do they mean to those who use them. My friends started calling me liberal. So I began to hang out with liberals. Problem was I didn't fit in with the liberals any better than the conservatives. THEN I learned of this other word. Progressive. I can't really define it for you but at least I've figured out that is where I fit. I think its most about change & action working together to bring about the Kingdom of God. At least when defined from a Christian standpoint.
So this will certainly be a progressive conversation we'll be having on this blog. There might only be a few that ever read this but I'm not really writing this to change the world. I'm writing to express & understand the changes that are going on in me and trying to find others that are on the same journey. I want to know what questions others are asking. I want to have a conversation about life, love & God.
They say the word Emergent came along because it was going to be like another reformation. And that seems to be true. They used that to describe that something new was emerging but we just didn't know what. About every 500 years the church has a garage sale & gets rid of excess baggage & junk. I think its time to let the new reformation begin (which in our new vernacular is "deconstructing") and begin to watch & enjoy being able to really see what emerges.
Friday, June 1, 2012
Why I'm Emergent & why a new blog
I'm just a normal guy with an extraordinary vision to see Jesus the person vs. Jesus the religion become a reality. I don't know if this would be a comeback or a new thing. Not sure. I'm not anti organized Christianity, I know allot of great people attending many Christian denominations who are doing their best and often making a big difference.
I'm just not sure how long this can continue. Its been said that every 500 years or so the church has a garage sale or some kind of reformation. In other words something NEW emerges. I am certainly a part of this new emergent movement. But if you know anything about this new "movement" its not really very organized. It also has many liberals, progressives & conservatives all mixed together with the one goal. To facilitate the emergence of a group of Jesus followers that are truly authentic and real.
There are so many distractions within organized churches. Some are certainly redeemable and some really just need to go.
Most of all I agree with Doug Pagitt, pastor of Solomon's Porch in Minneapolis who recently said on an edition of homebrewed christianity; "We need to be in relationship with different kinds of people."
We need to start organizing our churches or fellowships around people instead of theology. What if all kinds of people who wanted to follow Jesus could all share the same community, even if you don't agree. I am open and affirming to my LGBT friends but I'm open to share fellowship with those who just can't agree that God could approve of these relationships. What about Democrats & Republicans? Most churches are one or the other. Why? What about different theologies. Why can't we all walk this journey with Jesus together! I actually think both the male and female disciples probably represented the whole scope of opinions, theologies and moralities. They were an amazing mixed bag!
I believe the church was to be a community that believes in Jesus & shares communion despite its differences. Tolerant, accepting and willing to walk through anything together. As it is now most churches are outside in, meaning forcing morality from the outside which results in legalism and fundamentalism. With such a focus on outside behavior how is anyone suppose to really come to the community with a problem they need to grow with? We need an inside out walk of faith. One that is relying on the Holy Spirit. One that relies on one another.
We wonder why the church and christians act the way they do sometimes? Its only about looking good from the outside and when that engages the world its uglier than anything you can imagine.
Inside out inner transformation creates real change. Real motivation. Real love. When these engage the world its the most beautiful thing in the world. Just like in the journey of Jesus himself, people are sought out, brokenness is identified, people are loved not judged and healing is the wake left behind!
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