If you missed Part 1 here you go "Church" Part 1
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Theses verses are the only reason I felt bad for over a year every Sunday morning we did not go to church....but if you read them all together, if you actually take the time to figure out what they mean, they don't say, "go to church every Sunday (or Saturday)." they say to try to "stimulate one another to love and good deeds," to encourage one another.
Church is not about "me," it is about "you" it's not for me, it is not so I can be spiritually fed once a week. Church is about loving other believers, encouraging other believers, challenging other believers (and yourself) to do good deeds. It is not about how much money the "church" needs for their building program or their youth program. It's not about the "church" budget, it is about love, good deeds and encouragement. It's about fellowship with other believers to encourage them. We in America have tried to make it about "me," but it's not intended to be that, so it breaks down when it is that.
This is what prompted Hubbin and I to read the book "So You Don't Want To Go To Church Anymore" by Wayne Jacobsen and Dave Coleman. You can visit the website for the book here. Reading this beautifully written book was what finally pushed me over the edge into guilt-free church-free Sunday mornings. But, only because we had Christian fellowship, where we could encourage other believers (and be encouraged by them, although that was not the reason we spent time with them), elsewhere.
I guess, in a nutshell, that is what church is to us...fellowship with other believers where we are able to encourage, and love on one another.
Feel free to agree or disagree, and if you have found that in the traditional American "church" setting, that is awesome! If you haven't, I encourage you too find other believers to spend purposeful time with.
Until next time,
RaVae
Monday, July 23, 2012
Sunday, July 8, 2012
The Emergent Label
I'm a teacher at heart and that teaching takes me all over the place and into many different types of churches, schools and organizations.
The first thing everyone wants to know is your label. Well, they don't use that language but that is what they mean. Where can I fit you into my world. Conservative or liberal. Democrat or Republican. Religious or non religious. Extrovert or Introvert?
So even though I don't really like labels I'm often put into a place where I have to try to use them. The problem is that words ALWAYS have baggage. When you use a word, others already have an idea of what that means which is not always what you are meaning.
My dad likes to have fun with the word liberal. If someone says its bad to be liberal he might reply why? What do you mean by liberal. What if I want to be a liberal giver? You can see what I mean.
So for me in the last few years I've fallen into the category of "Emergent". I do love this term but so many don't really know what it means. Sometimes I'm not even sure (haha). I do believe we are in a period like the reformation & that the church has gotten so far off the tracks that we need something new to Emerge. So when THAT is a persons definition of Emergent, then I am. We are NOT known by our love at all & something has to change. Something new MUST emerge.
In past years most Emergents have liked to refer to this as "The Emergent Conversation". Like it wasn't a movement, it was a conversation. Now I like conversation, but I like action more. In this way I'm probably NOT Emergent. I'm more of a doer. I love giving to beggars. I love social action. I love trying to do things that Jesus would do. So I'm all for being Emergent in one sense, but I'm not if all its going to be is talking about all the ideals the world should have and how to solve them.
So you can see the problem with labels & words. They carry baggage. We have to either pick & choose the right ones, explain what we mean by them or know who we're talking to. It can give you a headache. For me, there is often no other way. So I'm constantly using them but I'm usually very purposeful about who I'm around, what they understand and how I can make sure they know what I mean when I use certain words or labels.
To fully understand The Emergent movement you probably should read up on the internet & for sure read the books I suggested a few blogs ago. Especially start with Rachel Held Evan's book "Evolving in Monkey Town". Then if you add to that McLaren's "A new kind of Christianity" and Rob Bell's "Love Wins" that is the best intro I can give you. You will at least have the general idea about the questions people are asking and why we don't have to have all the answers.
Also you might just feel yourself being set free from the old traditional Christian guilt & shame based religiosity and you just might find yourself FREE to really seek to know Jesus and find truth in the mystery without being judgmental, fundamental or a legalist.
What I see emerging in me is love, compassion and grace for ALL! This is my hope for this elusive thing we call the Emergent church.
What do you think? Let me know what you think about Emergence or other labels or frustrations or opinions!!!! Come on lets get some chatter going. Share this blog with your friends!!
The first thing everyone wants to know is your label. Well, they don't use that language but that is what they mean. Where can I fit you into my world. Conservative or liberal. Democrat or Republican. Religious or non religious. Extrovert or Introvert?
So even though I don't really like labels I'm often put into a place where I have to try to use them. The problem is that words ALWAYS have baggage. When you use a word, others already have an idea of what that means which is not always what you are meaning.
My dad likes to have fun with the word liberal. If someone says its bad to be liberal he might reply why? What do you mean by liberal. What if I want to be a liberal giver? You can see what I mean.
So for me in the last few years I've fallen into the category of "Emergent". I do love this term but so many don't really know what it means. Sometimes I'm not even sure (haha). I do believe we are in a period like the reformation & that the church has gotten so far off the tracks that we need something new to Emerge. So when THAT is a persons definition of Emergent, then I am. We are NOT known by our love at all & something has to change. Something new MUST emerge.
In past years most Emergents have liked to refer to this as "The Emergent Conversation". Like it wasn't a movement, it was a conversation. Now I like conversation, but I like action more. In this way I'm probably NOT Emergent. I'm more of a doer. I love giving to beggars. I love social action. I love trying to do things that Jesus would do. So I'm all for being Emergent in one sense, but I'm not if all its going to be is talking about all the ideals the world should have and how to solve them.
So you can see the problem with labels & words. They carry baggage. We have to either pick & choose the right ones, explain what we mean by them or know who we're talking to. It can give you a headache. For me, there is often no other way. So I'm constantly using them but I'm usually very purposeful about who I'm around, what they understand and how I can make sure they know what I mean when I use certain words or labels.
To fully understand The Emergent movement you probably should read up on the internet & for sure read the books I suggested a few blogs ago. Especially start with Rachel Held Evan's book "Evolving in Monkey Town". Then if you add to that McLaren's "A new kind of Christianity" and Rob Bell's "Love Wins" that is the best intro I can give you. You will at least have the general idea about the questions people are asking and why we don't have to have all the answers.
Also you might just feel yourself being set free from the old traditional Christian guilt & shame based religiosity and you just might find yourself FREE to really seek to know Jesus and find truth in the mystery without being judgmental, fundamental or a legalist.
What I see emerging in me is love, compassion and grace for ALL! This is my hope for this elusive thing we call the Emergent church.
What do you think? Let me know what you think about Emergence or other labels or frustrations or opinions!!!! Come on lets get some chatter going. Share this blog with your friends!!
Thursday, July 5, 2012
"Church" Part 1
Wow! What an honor! I've been asked to add some posts to this blog and boy am I excited! Let me introduce myself first since you have no idea who I am....
My name is RaVae Erickson and I am part of the Emergent Church....well, I like to think I am anyway!
Logen is much more theological than I am, and according to him I am part of the emergent church-that's good enough for me! I use "we" language a LOT. The majority of the time I do this (let's say around 99% of the time) I am referring to my husband and myself. We have been married for 4 years after dating for three, after being best friends for two years before that...yikes! I've known him for almost a decade! We aren't perfect, but we try to be honest with one another. We also have an adorable (not that I'm biased or anything) baby girl who is eight months old.
This first post I will try to tell you A little bit about our "church" story.... Hubbin attended a baptist "church" where he loved the speaking style of the pastor and I attended a "church" where I loved their small scale modern worship (and the speaking was pretty good too). The pastor left Hubbin's "church," so he started coming with me. Shortly thereafter we were both hurt by the way the people in my small (think 20 people) "church" were treating him-as if he was an outcast and an unclean leper! We left that "church" and were lost for a long time....we eventually found "cowboy church" where we both loved the honesty of the pastors. That was the first time I have ever heard a pastor say from the pulpit, "hey I screwed up this week, I did xyz."
BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, there was no community. There was no fellowship. We could go for months without talking to anyone at "church," and that, is just not right. That realization was the first step in our leaving typical American "churches" and searching for something better, something more, something deeper.... This post is quite long, so I think I will leave you with this and give you part two soon!
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Logen is much more theological than I am, and according to him I am part of the emergent church-that's good enough for me! I use "we" language a LOT. The majority of the time I do this (let's say around 99% of the time) I am referring to my husband and myself. We have been married for 4 years after dating for three, after being best friends for two years before that...yikes! I've known him for almost a decade! We aren't perfect, but we try to be honest with one another. We also have an adorable (not that I'm biased or anything) baby girl who is eight months old.
This first post I will try to tell you A little bit about our "church" story.... Hubbin attended a baptist "church" where he loved the speaking style of the pastor and I attended a "church" where I loved their small scale modern worship (and the speaking was pretty good too). The pastor left Hubbin's "church," so he started coming with me. Shortly thereafter we were both hurt by the way the people in my small (think 20 people) "church" were treating him-as if he was an outcast and an unclean leper! We left that "church" and were lost for a long time....we eventually found "cowboy church" where we both loved the honesty of the pastors. That was the first time I have ever heard a pastor say from the pulpit, "hey I screwed up this week, I did xyz."
BUT, and this is a BIG BUT, there was no community. There was no fellowship. We could go for months without talking to anyone at "church," and that, is just not right. That realization was the first step in our leaving typical American "churches" and searching for something better, something more, something deeper.... This post is quite long, so I think I will leave you with this and give you part two soon!
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. -Hebrews 10:23-25 (NASB)
Wednesday, July 4, 2012
Charlie
Hi my name is Charlie, or at least that is what a young foreigner nicknamed me. I am from an Asian country that has many problems and has been the location for wars over many things I do not understand.
With my dad gone, perhaps dead, I am left to try to help my family. I've tried everything. Well not everything. The one thing I have not done is sell myself. I've heard of other young people doing this but I don't think my dad would approve. I'm at the end though, and I need to decide what to do.
This foreigner that gave me the nickname Charlie seems like a nice guy. I mean he tells me he loves me, he'll even fly kites with me if I want. He is always talking about this good news. He even told me once that what is really important is what happens to you after you die. I guess this is not news I need now but for the future. I would like some good news now but he insists that this is good news now.
My foreign friend left recently. Said he had to go back to get more money to come back and bring us good news. I have to admit, I'm not sure I understand what he is talking about. Money or a job could be good news. I'm not sure these foreigners understand what we are going through at all.
With my foreign friend gone, all alone, I make my decision to make contact with a man that says he also has good news. Good news of a job. I'm glad because I did not want to have to sell myself like some of my friends. This was good news.
He took me to the city. Gave me food, clothes & a place to stay. Said I could pay him back. What I didn't realize is that the way to pay him back would be doing sexual things with older men with money to buy a moment of pleasure. I kept trying to make enough money to pay him back so I could start sending money back to my family but somehow I kept falling deeper into debt.
Some say Charlie needs to accept Jesus to go to heaven "someday". So many opinions out there as to how Charlie might get to heaven or whatever paradise awaits after death. To bad he missed his chance with the foreigner. Some even say well if Charlie is under 8 or 10 or 12 then he is fine he gets to go to heaven no matter what. Some say he needs to be baptized. Some say he needs to say certain words that he could have repeated after the foreigner. To bad the foreigner is not around now, charlie doesn't know the magic words nor the name of the person who has this good news for after you die. What was his name?
I hate to admit it but I am that foreigner. I remember having all the answers, now I have nothing but questions. I heard that Charlie died after years of trying to repay this man he worked for. I am pretty sure he didn't say the "sinners prayer". I'm pretty sure he didn't know Jesus. Would God really send him to hell for eternal conscious torment? Like burning FOREVER? Eternal torture? That doesn't sound like God to me. Especially if Jesus is the image of the invisible God as it says in the bible.
There are parts of the bible that seem to talk about eternal fire but there are also parts that seem to give us hope of ultimate reconciliation. If Jesus would leave the 99 for the 1 could he possibly be up to some greater end than we could have ever imagined? He said in the bible that he desires that NONE should perish. If that is true how strong is God. Is God strong enough to get everything God desires?
If he is then there is hope for Charlie! I hope God is strong enough to get his way and ALL he desires!
With my dad gone, perhaps dead, I am left to try to help my family. I've tried everything. Well not everything. The one thing I have not done is sell myself. I've heard of other young people doing this but I don't think my dad would approve. I'm at the end though, and I need to decide what to do.
This foreigner that gave me the nickname Charlie seems like a nice guy. I mean he tells me he loves me, he'll even fly kites with me if I want. He is always talking about this good news. He even told me once that what is really important is what happens to you after you die. I guess this is not news I need now but for the future. I would like some good news now but he insists that this is good news now.
My foreign friend left recently. Said he had to go back to get more money to come back and bring us good news. I have to admit, I'm not sure I understand what he is talking about. Money or a job could be good news. I'm not sure these foreigners understand what we are going through at all.
With my foreign friend gone, all alone, I make my decision to make contact with a man that says he also has good news. Good news of a job. I'm glad because I did not want to have to sell myself like some of my friends. This was good news.
He took me to the city. Gave me food, clothes & a place to stay. Said I could pay him back. What I didn't realize is that the way to pay him back would be doing sexual things with older men with money to buy a moment of pleasure. I kept trying to make enough money to pay him back so I could start sending money back to my family but somehow I kept falling deeper into debt.
Some say Charlie needs to accept Jesus to go to heaven "someday". So many opinions out there as to how Charlie might get to heaven or whatever paradise awaits after death. To bad he missed his chance with the foreigner. Some even say well if Charlie is under 8 or 10 or 12 then he is fine he gets to go to heaven no matter what. Some say he needs to be baptized. Some say he needs to say certain words that he could have repeated after the foreigner. To bad the foreigner is not around now, charlie doesn't know the magic words nor the name of the person who has this good news for after you die. What was his name?
I hate to admit it but I am that foreigner. I remember having all the answers, now I have nothing but questions. I heard that Charlie died after years of trying to repay this man he worked for. I am pretty sure he didn't say the "sinners prayer". I'm pretty sure he didn't know Jesus. Would God really send him to hell for eternal conscious torment? Like burning FOREVER? Eternal torture? That doesn't sound like God to me. Especially if Jesus is the image of the invisible God as it says in the bible.
There are parts of the bible that seem to talk about eternal fire but there are also parts that seem to give us hope of ultimate reconciliation. If Jesus would leave the 99 for the 1 could he possibly be up to some greater end than we could have ever imagined? He said in the bible that he desires that NONE should perish. If that is true how strong is God. Is God strong enough to get everything God desires?
If he is then there is hope for Charlie! I hope God is strong enough to get his way and ALL he desires!
Sunday, July 1, 2012
4 emergent books highly recommended
Now some of these people wouldn't consider themselves emergent, which is usually a sign they are!
Emergent is a VERY hard thing to explain. Its basically the idea that something "new" is emerging. To me its a bit like the idea of the Phoenix. You know the Phoenix dies & then out of the ashes arises a new one. So many think this is sort of like a new reformation. To me its kind of like nailing jello to the wall because you have all sorts of folks in the emergent conversation from many different perspectives. There are conservatives coming from the evangelical direction & there are also liberals coming from more of a mainline direction. So there is no doctrinal statement for the Emerging Church.
Now people are using the term Emergent less and starting to use "progressive Christian". I think what drives these people together is that they want to be known by their love. They are tired of a non loving, hypocritical church. They are tired of the world thinking we hate them. They usually aren't into legislating morality. Many of them support gay rights even if they think its still a sin. Most probably are pretty loose with that though and in some ways support monogamous faithful unions of any kind. They would say the bible never addresses that. Well I'm still evolving on that but my very dear friends that love the Lord and are gay are really helping me see things from a whole new light.
Anyway that at least gives you some idea of Emergent & Progressive. I think if you were to talk to 10 different theologians or pastors you'd probably get 6 different answers!!
Now these books I'm going to recommend are books to help you in an introductory way. I will list them in the order I'd read them too.
"Evolving in Monkey Town" by Rachel Held Evans
This book will just help you really understand how to read the bible in a real & fun way. She is not coming from a liberal perspective but ...... i won't wreck the book. She is an evangelical.
"A new kind of Christianity" by Brian McLaren
Now he also has a book called a new kind of christian so don't mix them up. All of his books are good though. Let me be VERY honest though. When I first read him I only agreed with him about 25%. I had allot of problems with some of the things he suggested BUT on the things I did connect with him on were LIFESAVING. I mean I really needed to read him. Now I probably agree with him on 75% and I'm quite sure that is about as good as its gonna get with him. But this book is good.
Unlike Rachel he is coming from more of a Mainline direction.
"Love Wins" by Rob Bell
Don't totally agree with everything but his ideas are very good. I'm a big fan of this book.
Also one of my children loves the book "Fall to Grace" by Jay Bakker
(yes that is Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker's son if you remember them from the 80's) I have not read this but they says its good. I'd read these others first though. He is probably the MOST progressive.
All these books have helped me on my spiritual journey. I began to realize I'm not alone, I'm not crazy and I'm not a heretic. I still believe in the atonement of Jesus, though many in the emergent movement don't so much (though they do still believe that Jesus is the way). I still believe that even if you use other religious practices, methods etc. that its still Jesus that saves. In other words I think there is only one way to God but many ways to Jesus, even if its not by the english name. I don't think Religion is from God I think its man made (see last post). So that is why many religions have methodologies that are pretty good at connecting with God. For example, the heart and soul of Buddhism is Karma which I don't believe in. I think Jesus is going to get us all to heaven whether we deserve it or not. BUT I do think that there are allot of buddhist practices that are great for connecting with God. Many of their meditation rituals are better than the Christian Religion. The only leg up the Christian Religion has is that it knows Jesus is the way (AT LEAST IN THEORY ..... HAHA)
So I still think like I always have that Jesus has made a way for us all. Much of my core theology hasn't changed. But I do see & read the bible different, I do think God's grace is wider than I once thought and I do think that we MUST find a way to be disciples known by love.
I'm not sure what bible so many christians are reading & I don't know how they are making themselves think that they are on the right track but WOW, what I see in Jesus is not what I usually see in churches, at least most of them.
Most christians seem to be hoping people won't get it while I think God is trying to get in ALL he can. I think God is up to something, salvation wise, much bigger than anything any of us could have ever imagined!!
I really hope this book list will help you. I'm quite certain that it will if you are open minded AND you don't have to feel like you agree with everything. Even if you only agree with 5 or 10% I'm sure you will find answers that you could not have found anywhere else!!
Enjoy!
Emergent is a VERY hard thing to explain. Its basically the idea that something "new" is emerging. To me its a bit like the idea of the Phoenix. You know the Phoenix dies & then out of the ashes arises a new one. So many think this is sort of like a new reformation. To me its kind of like nailing jello to the wall because you have all sorts of folks in the emergent conversation from many different perspectives. There are conservatives coming from the evangelical direction & there are also liberals coming from more of a mainline direction. So there is no doctrinal statement for the Emerging Church.
Now people are using the term Emergent less and starting to use "progressive Christian". I think what drives these people together is that they want to be known by their love. They are tired of a non loving, hypocritical church. They are tired of the world thinking we hate them. They usually aren't into legislating morality. Many of them support gay rights even if they think its still a sin. Most probably are pretty loose with that though and in some ways support monogamous faithful unions of any kind. They would say the bible never addresses that. Well I'm still evolving on that but my very dear friends that love the Lord and are gay are really helping me see things from a whole new light.
Anyway that at least gives you some idea of Emergent & Progressive. I think if you were to talk to 10 different theologians or pastors you'd probably get 6 different answers!!
Now these books I'm going to recommend are books to help you in an introductory way. I will list them in the order I'd read them too.
"Evolving in Monkey Town" by Rachel Held Evans
This book will just help you really understand how to read the bible in a real & fun way. She is not coming from a liberal perspective but ...... i won't wreck the book. She is an evangelical.
"A new kind of Christianity" by Brian McLaren
Now he also has a book called a new kind of christian so don't mix them up. All of his books are good though. Let me be VERY honest though. When I first read him I only agreed with him about 25%. I had allot of problems with some of the things he suggested BUT on the things I did connect with him on were LIFESAVING. I mean I really needed to read him. Now I probably agree with him on 75% and I'm quite sure that is about as good as its gonna get with him. But this book is good.
Unlike Rachel he is coming from more of a Mainline direction.
"Love Wins" by Rob Bell
Don't totally agree with everything but his ideas are very good. I'm a big fan of this book.
Also one of my children loves the book "Fall to Grace" by Jay Bakker
(yes that is Jim & Tammy Faye Bakker's son if you remember them from the 80's) I have not read this but they says its good. I'd read these others first though. He is probably the MOST progressive.
All these books have helped me on my spiritual journey. I began to realize I'm not alone, I'm not crazy and I'm not a heretic. I still believe in the atonement of Jesus, though many in the emergent movement don't so much (though they do still believe that Jesus is the way). I still believe that even if you use other religious practices, methods etc. that its still Jesus that saves. In other words I think there is only one way to God but many ways to Jesus, even if its not by the english name. I don't think Religion is from God I think its man made (see last post). So that is why many religions have methodologies that are pretty good at connecting with God. For example, the heart and soul of Buddhism is Karma which I don't believe in. I think Jesus is going to get us all to heaven whether we deserve it or not. BUT I do think that there are allot of buddhist practices that are great for connecting with God. Many of their meditation rituals are better than the Christian Religion. The only leg up the Christian Religion has is that it knows Jesus is the way (AT LEAST IN THEORY ..... HAHA)
So I still think like I always have that Jesus has made a way for us all. Much of my core theology hasn't changed. But I do see & read the bible different, I do think God's grace is wider than I once thought and I do think that we MUST find a way to be disciples known by love.
I'm not sure what bible so many christians are reading & I don't know how they are making themselves think that they are on the right track but WOW, what I see in Jesus is not what I usually see in churches, at least most of them.
Most christians seem to be hoping people won't get it while I think God is trying to get in ALL he can. I think God is up to something, salvation wise, much bigger than anything any of us could have ever imagined!!
I really hope this book list will help you. I'm quite certain that it will if you are open minded AND you don't have to feel like you agree with everything. Even if you only agree with 5 or 10% I'm sure you will find answers that you could not have found anywhere else!!
Enjoy!
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